Defection is universally accepted in politics—Okupe

Dr Doyin Okupe served under former presidents Olusegun Obasanjo and Goodluck Jonathan as Special Adviser on Information and Strategy. In this encounter, he bares his mind on the recent siege at the National Assembly by masked men of the Department of State Security, Senator Bukola Saraki’s many woes as well as other related issues.

What is your view on the rancour that transpired at the National Assembly recently?

In all ramifications, there are no two ways to describe it. That was pure treason. When you take over an arm of a sovereign government unlawfully, it is treasonable. It was subordination of democracy itself, a terrible act of fundamental principle of separation of power which is a pillar of democracy. Many people may not be aware that what differentiate a military regime from democracy are the congressmen that we refer to as the National Assembly. In a military regime, we have the executive, we have the judiciary but we don’t have congressmen. It is sacred that you cannot violate it. It is a rape and it is condemnable, absolutely intolerable and should be condemned by all well meaning Nigerians, including the government itself.

Will you say the move taken immediately by the presidency that led to  the sack of the DSS boss is commendable?

That is what I am saying. While it is commendable, the underlining cause of that move is frightening because the sacking of Daura was because he committed that treason act without the order of any lawful authority. What will make the DSS assume that role without fear and execute it is what we should worry about. How come we got our system to that level, how did it happen? The president is elected to run the country. When we submit our sovereignty to you, we should be able to go to bed with the belief that you are in-charge. If anything happen to us and you say that you did not know that means we are in trouble! That is the sadness of this matter. It is good that the Vice-president immediately intervened.

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How did Nigeria get to this point?

It’s the same question I sincerely have to ask you too because I don’t understand. By the grace of God, I have been in government twice. This is befouling and I do not understand it, I do not comprehend it and instead of us seriously, critically look into this matter, people must be concerned. Instead of that we are distorting fact that is the leadership of the legislature that created a coup on themselves when we saw it clearly. People that are talking have forgotten that social media is in existence. Gone are the days Nigerians had to wait till 9-10 pm to watch and listen to national events and happening. As it was happening, we saw the event, it is absolutely impossible for the event to have been stage. Many people who are in the position of authority today maybe because they are not too educated, they assume that most of us they are leading are also not educated as well. Most Nigerians are extremely civilised.

What are your thoughts on massive defections and claims that the PDP have unruly elements that want to destabilize the current administration and the ruling party APC?

Defection is a political move that happens everywhere in the world. Government and administration is different. The government is different from political parties. The game political parties play to outsmart each other is a different ball game. It should not be seen as an enemy move.

Do you think such moves and ideology are good for the democratic system?

It is not an ideology. It is the practice all over the world. In Britain, in the last five years, 60 members of their parliament crossed from one party to the other. I wonder why in this part of the world we make it look as if it is something strange. In India, parliamentarians recently left one party to cross to the other. The incumbent President of France, Macron, was a member of the ruling party, he was a federal minister and he left the ruling party to form his own party. He contested and he won. So why are we bothered with defections? We have to be cerebral in some of these things because there are too many unpalatable arguments you hear from quarters you do not expect and it is extremely embarrassing. The constitution is quite clear on this. For you to remove the Senate President, you require two-third majority of the senators which is sacrosanct, but the argument that he was not elected by the whole house does not hold water. The process of election is different from the process of removal; it is clearly spelt out in the constitution.

What about those calling for Senate President Bukola Saraki to vacate the seat on moral grounds?

There is no morality in political positions. On moral grounds, will you tell the president of the country to resign because he promised so many things and he has not fulfilled  them? It is not done anywhere! You can resign your position if for instance you find out that the Senate President was involved in a mafia position that would in a way cast a slur. But the erroneous thing that is making people talk about a moral ground is because they feel it is compulsory that the Senate President or the leadership of the National Assembly should come from the ruling party. It is a fallacy.

What does this portray come 2019?

I do not want to be the devil’s advocate. I want to hope there would be an election in 2019; it will be a keenly contested election but my position is: I am not APC and definitely I do not wish that APC would win. But I will join forces with other parties contesting against the APC. If we lose, the game continues. It is not personal. If I oppose you, it is not because I hate you. It’s because I want your seat and I also want to serve. It is a lawful legal competitive exercise.

How do you see Senator Bukola Saraki and his enormous woes?

Bukola Saraki inadvertently has become a symbol for the defense of democracy. In recent time he has become the defender of democracy. Because if an attempt is made to subvert democracy instead of keeping quiet, the courageous man steps forward all the time to resist the subversion of our democracy. He could have recapitulated cowardly and allowed anything to go by setting up bad precedence. Instead, he stepped out; he stood firm; he resisted anti-democratic forces. I see him now as the defender of our democracy.

How do you then describe his meeting with about 34 leaders of different political parties?

I heard they came on a courtesy visit. The 34 political parties are impotent to do anything about democracy but they now see a defender of democracy, so they are gravitating towards him and also encouraging him to keep on with what he is doing.

What is your charge for this administration before 2019?

The new DG of DSS when he was making his speech said they are going to review many cases of human right abuses; that already tells you that something wrong was going on before. So let us rewrite all these wrongs by restoring human right like the case of Dasuki, among others. Let us comply with court orders by being a progressive country without disobeying the rule of law. All parties must adhere to the confinements of the law. Let us go back to the basics; the fight against corruption must be in adherence to the rule of law. For instance why should I obey a police officer because he is wearing a uniform but when the police officer does not operate according to the law, why should I obey him? This government must correct all the wrong doings and restore human right. They should contain all anti-democratic forces within them and that includes putting under control the national chairman of the APC, Adams Oshiomole. If you want to remove the Senate President, go to the law. And the need to strengthen our institution cannot be over emphasized. Man is temporal but institutions must be permanent. Let us encourage institutions to work properly. Above all, like the Americans say, security must be neutral in all areas of conflicts and exposure. It is so important because without it we cannot go far as a nation.

But the presidency has tagged this as a battle between good and evil. What do you make of this?

He is correct. Good is everywhere. Evil is also everywhere. I totally agree but the location is where we cannot determine because we have good and evil in the presidency, we also have good and evil in the opposition, as well as in the APC and the PDP. There are good and evil in the legislature as well as in the judiciary. It is a correct statement but it goes beyond that and the only way we can get over it is the upholding of the rule of law. Once we allow the rule of law, it’s either the bad withdraws their evil, or they get punished for it.

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