No state governor has the right to legislate or stop any Miner – Ogah

Uchechukwu Sampson Ogah, is a chartered accountant, banker and current Minister of State for Mines and Steel Development. Before his appointment last year, he was a known player in the oil and gas sector of the economy. In this exclusive interview with BUSINESSDAY Editorial Board Member explains how in seamless collaboration with his brother Minister they are driving the Presidential mandate of making the mining sector a major alternative to oil in terms of revenue generation and job creation. Excerpt:

Honourable Minister of State, first you were in the private sector, and now in public sector. How are you able to balance the private sector orientation and public sector bureaucracy?

Thank you my brother. I think it is quite interesting and a good experience to work in both the private and public sector. I can tell you in the private sector we talk about performance. But in Public sector, they’re always talking about processes and control. I still believe that there’re so many areas we have similarities in both the public and private sector and I’ve been able to blend. I can tell you it’s been a very awesome experience. In the private sector, you give something to someone and want it delivered immediately, but it’s not like that in the public sector as you need to follow the processes, and the controls put in place. I want to say that when you get to a certain level in life, there is need for you to go through both the public and private sector experience so that you will be able to appreciate things from different perspectives.

In that respect, how have you been able to deal with the issue of bureaucracy?

The key to it is you understanding what the establishment wants, the processes and you give instructions and things are done. You need to understand the processes and how you want things done. For me, it has been awesome to navigate the bureaucratic nature of the public sector. We’ve been able to manage it and we’re bringing in speed into issues that we’re doing.

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When your name was mentioned for Ministerial position, people thought given your background you would be posted to the oil ministry or trade and investments, how have you been able to blend?

A 21st century manager needs to be a versatile leader to be able to blend and fit in into any situation he or she finds himself or herself. At a certain level as a manager, you’re not expected to be put in a certain place, because you’re coming to serve. You’re basically not a technocrat but more like an administrator. But all the same, you should have knowledge. Apart from the oil and gas sector, I’m a chartered accountant. I’ve worked in the bank and left as an Assistant General Manager. So, the capacity is there. It is left for one to get the understanding of the place of his or her primary assignment and bring in his or her own idea, and things will fall into place.

So far what would you say are your key achievements?

It is a joint mandate, between the Minister, the minister of state and the permanent secretary. We’ve been able to work together like brothers and rub minds together on how we’re going and how we want to get there. And I can tell you since we came in, we’ve been able to achieve a lot and the people out there can testify to that. The issue of synergy between the federal, state and local governments we’ve been able to look into that. The issue of downstream policy, we’re also looking at that. There are lots of critical issues that we’re looking at because they’re all inter related and for the purpose of achieving the Presidential mandate of seeing the sector as a key driver of its diversification agenda away from the oil and gas. We are working with that mindset and that is what is creating the impact in the sector. We’ve been able to consolidate on the past gains of our predecessors and we’ve been able to bring in bigger ideas on the way to utilise mines as a key means of economy diversification.

In specific terms, what have you achieved in the last one year of your appointment?

First, we talked about the synergy between the federal and state governments. You also talk about the downstream sector, the artisanal gold mining bar presented to Mr. President, you talked about the formalization of the artisanal miners creating them into cooperatives and brining them into responsible mining. Mainstreaming these artisanal miners and by this way creating prosperity for these miners. Like I said there is a lot we’re doing and would continue to do. One of the key things we’re doing about the downstream sector is that we must ensure that every mineral produced in

Nigeria must be beneficial to the economy so that we can bring it into so many other components For instance, in a single Ore you can have many other components and process of beneficiation is helpful and that is typically what we’re doing.

Talking about the artisanal miners, there are concerns that why they’re thriving is that the federal government has not been able to create enabling environment for the multinational companies to operate, how true is this?

That is one thing that Mr. President has done because when he came in he graciously gave money for the first time to the sector on data generation-on geophysical information required for you to invest. That is what is currently going on. A lot of studies are currently ongoing. That is the only way to bring in the bigger miners, because no bigger miner would like to come into the sector without information and the information he wants is the information that gives him data about particular mineral on its commercial quantity and similar information. That helps the investor to take a business decision. If that is not done, no big miner would like to come. That is why Nigeria has continued to thrive in artisanal mining. With what we’re doing, formalizing and mainstreaming artisanal miners, soon the story would change for the better.

Recently, there were ugly incidences in Zamfara and other places and people attributed them to illegal mining, what is government doing on this?

The government is doing a lot and that is why the President has banned mining in North West. This is because of illegal mining. Currently, we’re trying to bring out a law that will incriminate illegal mining so that no matter how small you’re mining activity you will be licensed. We’re working on how we can stamp out illegal mining across the country and that effort is being done and we’re talking to the Attorney General to create special court on illegal mining. That will help us in prosecuting illegal miners. Once you’re caught you are charged. People should not get involved in illegal mining. Rather, if you want to mine come and get your license .That is also the reason why we have levels of licenses including small scale mining licenses.

You were in Calabar not long ago where issues of ownership of mining sites came up. We know that the mining Act 2007 gave the federal government right over mining sites. The states are raising issues also over land ownership. How is the federal government resolving this?

Let’s be very realistic on what we’re talking about and what led to mining being on the exclusive list. Do you want us to run a country or a junta state?.if the states claim mining sites belong to them, what of the oil in Niger Delta? That is the essence of creating that common basket that if you are mining gold or tantalite in any state, whatever revenue that comes from that state, the state is entitled to 13 percent just like what is in the oil and gas sector. I don’t see the reason why anybody would interfere in mining sites and the constitution is clear that mining is under the exclusive list.

I noticed the reaction of the Cross River state governor on the matter which I believe represents the position of most of the other states. How do you react to that?

The most important thing to ask is how realistic are these views? Now, if somebody in Niger Delta said, I don’t want anybody to pass through our land because the oil is in my state, what do you think would happen?. The law of the land is straight. What is in the land belongs to the federal government. That is why if you mine, you put the place in its original state so that it can be used for agricultural purposes. I don’t see the argument. It is the revenue from that mining that the federal government uses in construction of roads to Calabar. That is what we’re saying.

Don’t you think amending the land use act would be a way out?

How do you want to amend it? They’re all serving different purposes, the mineral act is serving different purpose and the land use act is serving different purpose .There should not be any interference and I believe that the people that rolled out those acts had a properly thought out plan. We have encouraged states telling them that any state is free to get into mining using a special purpose vehicle for mining. So that you can see what an investor is passing through. That is why we’re creating those opportunities. The law takes precedence. The law states that mining takes precedence over agriculture. Government needs mining license fees to execute infrastructure projects and pay salaries.

I could recall some companies that got their mining lease during your predecessor’s tenure and have not been allowed to operate up till now. Could you speak on that?

They should come to us with their complaints. They should bring their issues up. The issue is that some of the people cut corners. The way these things are done. Who are the original owners of the land? What does the land use Act say? If I have a family land does it belong to the state government? That is why the mining Act said, you take a consent letter from the family or the communities before you start the main exploration or exploitation, and you must have community development agreement. So, it is lack of understanding, that is happening to so many people and they’re trying to muddle up all these issues. No state governor has any right to stop any miner .The law is there. They cannot legislate on issues of mines. What they need to do is to collaborate with the federal Ministry of Mines and Steel Development and then we have synergy. When you have a synergy, you have a better result.

One challenge most local private investors are facing is lack of funds with which to compete globally. Is there any hope of government support for them?

To start with, we see that as a business and there are many ways to raise a fund when you want to start a business. You must understand the dynamics of business when you want to start a business. On that note, there are various means of assessing funding either through the bank or private equity. But the federal government in its magnanimity in 2016 approved some funds worth 2.5 billion which was given to the bank of industry for disbursement. The bank of Industry also added additional amount to the fund available to miners. The problem we have in Nigeria is that when people see that something is from the government they think it is bazaar. When we have serious miners, they would get assistance. I think over N3 billion has been disbursed so far.